Reword F23 #1826
Reword F23 #1826
Conversation
in line with the proposed clarification for 1.4.2 #1825 this clarifies that a *mechanism* needs to be available. the mechanism can actually be provided by the UA/system, not necessarily by the Web page. Key here is that it must be possible to turn off the sound *independently* from any other audio output. Closes #1543 Only makes sense to merge if #1825 (or an equivalent/modified version of the PR) is also merged
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Any news on this @alastc ? |
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bump |
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@patrickhlauke you stated
That was closed due to lack of support to change the normative text. However, there was a minor tweak to the Understanding document that was merged. Do you consider that sufficient to support the incorporation of this technique correction? |
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Discussed on call 12/8, minor edit to track closer to SC phrasing. |
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@mbgower you wanted to quickly scan this one before putting out to the group. |
techniques/failures/F23.html
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| <li> Check that there is a way in a Web page to turn off any sound that | ||
| plays automatically for more than three seconds.</li> | ||
| <li>Check that there is a mechanism to turn off any sound that | ||
| plays automatically for more than three seconds, independently from the overall system volume level. |
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So if the volume is the same as the system volume does the length of an auto-played audio file matter? I would hope that anything automatically played you could shut off after 3 minutes (regardless of the volume level).
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i think you're missing the point here - the "independently..." refers to the mechanism to turn off any sound. i.e the mechanism isn't "just turn off the audio of your entire system ... there ... now you satisfy the SC".
however, if this is confusing (that the "independently" refers to the mechanism), can be turned around to something like
Check that there is a mechanism, independent from the overall system volume level, to turn off any sound that plays automatically for more than three seconds
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Does this now mean that if checking conformance with a browser like Chrome this SC would be always met? |
addressing potential misread
| <h2>Description</h2> | ||
| <p>This describes a failure condition for Success Criteria involving sound. If sound does not | ||
| turn off automatically within 3 seconds and there is no way to turn the | ||
| sound off, independently from the overall system volume level, then Success Criterion 1.4.2 would not be met. |
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| sound off, independently from the overall system volume level, then Success Criterion 1.4.2 would not be met. | |
| sound off, or control the volume independently from the overall system volume level, then Success Criterion 1.4.2 would not be met. |
| <section class="procedure"><h3>Procedure</h3> | ||
| <ol> | ||
| <li> Check that there is a way in a Web page to turn off any sound that | ||
| plays automatically for more than three seconds.</li> | ||
| <li>Check that there is a mechanism, independent from the overall system volume control, to turn off any sound that |
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| <li>Check that there is a mechanism, independent from the overall system volume control, to turn off any sound that | |
| <li>Check that there is a mechanism, independent from the overall system volume control, to turn off or turn down any sound that |
@mraccess77 Is it your sense that changing the failure technique has altered the SC requirement? Or is it that as a result of re-assessing 1.4.2 during this review, are you identifying a possible way to meet it? I'm just trying to decide if you are identifying a concern with this correction. |
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@mraccess77 i believe that was the long discussion that was had which then led to this PR (though i admit that because this has been in limbo so long, I might only be half remembering it). I believe the discussion started with #1533 (though I also see #1543) we then had various split off/parallel attempts to address this like #1825 I think this PR here was the final outcome after all of that, in my mind. in direct answer "so does it mean muting tabs is now ok", i think back in those discussions we came to the conclusion that only if that's available on all (target) platforms / an accessibility-supported question in the end |
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I believe this does not change the SC but the practice of how/when people fail this issue. That is - it changes the interpretation that most people had. This is fine -but I want to make sure that the group is alignment that this interpretation is indeed correct and the result should be for many to no longer fail this SC most of the time when audio is playing automatically without other page controls. I believe this reading is in line with Trusted Tester. |
| </section><section id="examples"><h2>Examples</h2> | ||
| </section> | ||
| <section id="description"> | ||
| <h2>Description</h2> |
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I think it's important to mention that most browsers use heuristics to mute automatically playing audio / video now. That's probably not sufficient as a mechanism, at least that's what ACT concluded when we looked at it. Similarly, several browser support muting individual tabs, we didn't think that qualifies as a mechanism either. I think its important to make that clear.
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I completely agree.
In addition, some platforms offer the possibility to mute specific browser windows. I would neither consider this a valid mechanism.
In the initial issue description, the phrase "turn off the sound independently from any other audio output." was used. I think this is much closer to what we want to achieve.
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IMO, there are enough comments about what is considered an acceptable mechanism that that should be opened as a separate issue/discussion. I believe that discussion can take place independent of accepting this PR, and have opened #3623 |
in line with the proposed clarification for 1.4.2 #1825 this clarifies that a mechanism needs to be available. the mechanism can actually be provided by the UA/system, not necessarily by the Web page. Key here is that it must be possible to turn off the sound independently from any other audio output.
Closes #1543
Only makes sense to merge if #1825 (or an equivalent/modified version of the PR) is also merged(Completed)